Overcoming Food Addiction: Strategies for a Healthy Life

ETL S02-E30 Food Addiction

Jenna: [00:00:00] Today on the Eat to Live podcast, food addiction, you are a great person to talk to. 'cause you actually are very vocal and you've said this to a lot of people that you've suffered from it.

Dr. Cara: And it got to a point where it was so bad. I told dad I was listening to him and I told him I fired him as my doctor.

You also have deep regret the next day. Yeah. And while you're binging is this is what happened to me is I would think in my head, I won't eat tomorrow. But that's why I think education is so powerful. Because it gives people the power to make their own choices.

Jenna: Yeah.

Hey, Dr. Cara, thank you for joining me on the Eat Lift podcast. I'm really excited because today we're gonna talk about strategies to resolve food addictions. And how to kind of have freedom from food, how to have a life where you don't feel trapped by unhealthy food that are kind of living your life for you.

So Kara, why [00:01:00] don't you give us a little definition about what food addiction really is and what to look for?

Dr. Cara: I think it's really important to understand that food addiction is a real neurobiological process. It affects the brain's reward system in a way that's similar. Drugs and alcohol. Wow. It causes a dopamine surge in the brain that wants more and more.

You can have a similar withdrawal where you need or similar like, uh, effect where you need more to get that reward, just like drugs and alcohol. And you can also have withdrawal like fatigue, brain fog, anxiety. Food addiction is an addiction. Yeah, totally. That's I think something that people need to really understand and an important message to take home from this episode.

Mm-hmm. And like alcoholism, do you feel like people have a genetic predisposition? Yeah, potentially. I mean, I think a lot of it's environment. I think a lot of it's emotional. Just like alcohol. Yeah. You know, usually alcoholics, a lot of that times that comes from a tragic thing that happens in their life.

And I think food addiction can be the same way. [00:02:00] E,

Jenna: except dad always says this, food addiction actually is. It's a really hard thing to struggle from. 'cause food's everywhere and you also need it to survive like alcohol. You could abstain, right? You can abstain from alcohol, you can abstain from heroin, food, you need to survive.

And it's everywhere. It's everywhere. So it's, it's a really tough problem that needs to be addressed and people going through it needs to know, they need to know that there are helpful things that they can do to help this, even though it is such a tough problem they're dealing with.

Dr. Cara: And pack the packaged food industry is also marketing to create food addicts.

Mm-hmm. So it's really hard when things are constantly being pushed at you say, be a food addict. Be a food addict. Be a food addict. And they're profiting on it. Mm-hmm.

Jenna: Which is kind of

Dr. Cara: crazy.

Jenna: So sad. Yeah. It's they've, marketing has really. People, drug companies and fast food companies, they're all profit profiting off people.

It is. It's not really natural, and I think once you start realizing that maybe that'll help you break up a little bit with these foods that aren't helping you, they're actually hurting you.

Dr. Cara: I love how Dad always says he wants his patients. He's [00:03:00] trying to get his patients to not have to come to him.

Jenna: Yeah.

Yeah. You know, like, oh, the, the famous line. I hate gonna to doctors. I wouldn't even go to myself. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, totally. I God bless, because I, doctor's offices aren't fun. No. No offense. No offense. Your office is awesome. Oh, yeah. My

Dr. Cara: office can be great,

Jenna: and I'm really excited to help people, but it's true.

We're,

Dr. Cara: we're teaching you how to do this on your own.

Jenna: Yeah. Right. Well make it, let's make this a happy visit, not, yeah. Oh, not a sad visit. Definitely. Yeah. So, okay. Food addiction. You are a great person to talk to. 'cause you actually are very vocal and you've said this to a lot of people that you've suffered from it.

Mm-hmm. So I think it's so cool that we actually have your perspective and, and not only did you suffer from it, you overcame it.

Dr. Cara: Definitely. I'm on the other side and I haven't really talked about this much because it's something that I struggled with for so many years and it's still pretty recent. Um, I do feel like I'm completely on the other side, which is really exciting, but I should probably explain how I got there.

Everything.

Jenna: Yeah. So your health journey hasn't always been easy. You actually were diagnosed with Lyme's disease and that was kind of the [00:04:00] impetus of some issues that snowballed. So can you explain what happened?

Dr. Cara: Yeah, so I was a camp counselor in Massachusetts. I got Lyme disease from being at that camp, and I had to take a lot of antibiotics because when you have something like Lyme, there's no other option for you.

You have to take antibiotics. You know, we don't recommend it for a lot of other things, but you have to. And that was a really traumatic experience because then I got cystic acne after I went off the antibiotics. And then about, you know, eight months later, I started having this really, really, really bad stomach pain.

Like my gut was just all messed up. And then about a year after that, I went to naturopathic medical school where I learned that I had sick building syndrome, which. Is apparently predisposed for people who have had Lyme. Wow. So it's all correlated. And what sick building syndrome is, is when you go somewhere and.

You feel really sick. I would sit in the building and I would get an immediate migraine. I would get a be bloated where it's looking like I'm six months pregnant and have stabbing stomach pain. Yeah, I was, you know it, I mean, I would text you every day, like, call you crying. I was in so much pain [00:05:00] from being in that building and I did so much to try to, you know, minimize my exposures.

COVID really helped me because when we went online, you know, a lot of my symptoms did get better. Um, for, from being, not being able to be in person and then we went back to in person, my symptoms came back. But in all this time I went through a lot of ups and downs and trying a lot of different things.

Working with dad, trying to figure out why I didn't feel good.

Jenna: I think it's shocking 'cause for the first time in your life you experienced probably what so many people experience, which is I'm sick and I don't know how to get better. And working with dad out of, from a place of desperation really.

Dr. Cara: Totally, and it got to a point where it was so bad. I told dad I was listening to him and I told him I fired him as my doctor. I saw probably five or six different other doctors, some naturopaths, some conventional doctors. I got CT scans like I did it all. You got a CT scan I got? Yeah, I think so. My brain.

Yeah. You did? Yeah. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. And I, um, did a bunch of GI tests with a gastroenterologist, you know, I fired dad. I, [00:06:00] well, I remember you, you said you get everyone else better,

Jenna: but you can't get me better.

Dr. Cara: I did. Yeah. I said that to him, and I feel really bad for saying that to him because.

Imagine hearing that from your daughter. He probably felt really bad. He did. He, he told

Jenna: me that. He was like, I don't know what's going on with her and why the diet, and he just kept pushing the same story, which was Do it a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Mm-hmm. He was, and he,

Dr. Cara: he just sounded like a broken record to me.

Yeah. And now looking back, I wasn't doing exactly what he was saying, but. After seeing all of those doctors and still not getting better, and a lot of them telling me things and I was like, that's so wrong, and this doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to do that. I rehired dad. So, yeah.

Jenna: Well, and also I just feel like it gave you, people say you learn from failures and you learn from adversity like you were gonna be.

You are such a better physician and such a wealth of knowledge because of these experiences you went through. 'cause you really put yourself in

Dr. Cara: your patient's shoes. Absolutely. And I saw how frustrating it is when people don't listen to you. Yeah. I would go to a doctor, explain them all my symptoms and they would write me a treatment plan for something I feel like I didn't even talk about.

Really? Yeah. Just they're [00:07:00] sending same patient, the same people. Same things.

Jenna: Well, and also depending on who you go to, every doctor has a different treatment plan too. So people think for those like who maybe don't come from such a medical family, don't realize that doctors are just people and they learn things and have their own.

Biases or beliefs or experience that with things that have helped people. And I think what's so cool about what you and dad do is it's healing from the inside out. Mm-hmm. So it's the same protocol that will let your body heal from the inside out.

Dr. Cara: A hundred percent. So back to my story with what happened on my food addiction is when I was feeling so sick, I rehired dad and I decided that I wanted to do a water fast.

Right. I thought that was gonna be the solution to my problems. Yeah. It's probably like the most aggressive form of eating this way. Right? Right. It's like a feeling. Totally fasting. So I didn't eat for six days. I only drank water under dad's supervision. You have to do this under supervision and I had never felt so [00:08:00] amazing.

My stomach that was stabbing me every night, my headaches that were constant, I had constant brain fog. I wasn't bloated anymore. I felt. So good. I was like, I never wanna eat again. Mm-hmm. You know, like I'm, I actually wanted to eat again, but you know what I'm saying? I really felt so great from not eating that.

I was like, food is my issue. Yeah. And so when I reintroduced foods, you know, you have to do it a little bit slowly, and then you start eating normally again. And I got so in love with how I felt from fasting that I wasn't eating normally again. I just remained not eating enough. I was eating fruit and.

Mainly for meals. You were keeping it very light. I was keeping it very light because I was scared to eat

Jenna: well, and I remember this being a really tough part of your issue is like food. The some, the thing that you need to give you sustenance and to make you survive was also causing stabbing pains for you.

Mm-hmm. So it was also making you. Skin a lot of pain. So it's weird to have this trade off on something that makes you feel good. And even a really nutrient dense salad would cause [00:09:00] stabbing pains. 'cause all the fiber was hard for you to digest. Yeah, because the sick building syndrome made me very constipated.

Yeah. So that is just like such a hard trade off of like you eat something to make you feel better, it's a slap in the face and you feel terrible. So I remember

Dr. Cara: that.

Jenna: Right. Just being

Dr. Cara: really hard. Right. And back then I also wasn't chewing very well. So I think that did play a role into my stomach already being off.

And then I wasn't chewing well and again, I came off of antibiotics and I had sick building syndrome, so my gut was just all messed up. Yeah. And so in feeling really good, I then realized I was really hungry. So at this point in my life, I was also lonely. I was dating, I had just gotten out of a relationship and I wanted to go on dates feeling really good.

I wanted to put myself out there. I wanted to socialize with friends. So I would go out. With eating not much the day, that same day. And then I would come back home and stuff my face like there was no tomorrow. Yeah. And I couldn't control myself. And it was like I didn't have, I couldn't control my actions and there was no one, nothing that was gonna stop me.

And it got to a [00:10:00] point, so this hap happened over time in the beginning. I started doing it and throwing up after and then. I moved forward and I stopped throwing up because I figured that was really bad for my gut and that was probably making the problem way worse. So then I started just binging and not throwing up.

And what happened in that time period was. I was not eating to go out and socialize and go on these dates and feel good. But the whole time, during the date or during the time with my friends, all I was thinking about was how I wanted to go home to binge. Yeah. So I wasn't even present in those moments because I was just craving the binge.

Jenna: Yeah. So when we hear things like for longevity, you wanna do a moderate caloric deficit. The environment of nutritional, nutritional excellence. I need to get that right. Moderate caloric

Dr. Cara: deficit

Jenna: in the environ,

Dr. Cara: moderate, moderate caloric restriction in the context of micronutrient excellence.

Jenna: Thank you.

This is

Dr. Cara: why I keep you here,

Jenna: but Yes, but what you were doing is a huge caloric deficit. You were doing the full on caloric deficit. Oh yeah. No, I was not doing that. Right, which is I, I [00:11:00] think after seeing you go through that is why I'm such an advocate for balance and making it a positive and making sure that you're eating the right stuff and really not trying to starve yourself, because that could lead to disordered eating to a whole bunch of psychological.

Things that are really hurting you, not helping you.

Dr. Cara: Well, I also wasn't eating any of the gbombs, you know, I, I was doing like some greens of course, but I wasn't really doing beans. 'cause I had this perception in my mind that they were making me bloated. Yeah. I wasn't doing really that many nuts, I guess.

Um, I was mainly eating fruits and lettuce, so that's not enough nutrients. The whole thing about the nutri diet is it's very precise nutrition. Yeah. And in order to be satiated, you need everything. Yeah, totally. It really does make you so satiated. I was also eating like. A healthy ice cream sandwich, I would have like one of those.

Mm-hmm. And call that a meal. Yeah. Right. Which that's no, that's like not very many nutrients like sherry. Yeah. I put blueberries in it, but,

Jenna: and I feel like this time was such a good period of learning because you were nutritarian in the sense that you didn't eat processed foods and other foods that so many other people have in their houses and.

House and lifestyle, but [00:12:00] it, you saw gaps in holes that were really actually harming you in the end.

Dr. Cara: Absolutely, and I think one thing that is a really important distinction is that even healthy foods can be addictive. Yeah. Things like granola peanut butter. I wasn't going home and going to Chick-fil-A and getting french fries.

I was going home and eating 10 of those healthy ice cream sandwiches. Plus even if I made like three avocado toast or I was. Going through my fridge and eating everything, but it was foods.

Jenna: Yeah. And I think it was just a huge amount of calories. And the fasting is definitely linked to this in the sense where I hear you and dad as you practice, you're a lot more cautious around fasting 'cause you wanna make sure the introducing new foods is going really well and that you're not throwing off your hunger cues and being really confused when you come back.

And it does. Fasting is kinda like a last resort. 'cause I wonder if you could have helped yourself by instead doing like a juice fash faster, really lightening your, your calories and then coming back so it wasn't so [00:13:00] aggressive and losing your hunger cues and experiencing this. 'cause I feel like the fast definitely contributed to some of the issues that you deal with after.

I

Dr. Cara: do agree, but I also think it was that I. Was in a calorie deficit for so much longer after the fast. Yeah. So it wasn't a quick, fast, and then we're back and we're doing it all right. No, it was like I did a two or three day fast. Yeah. And then just went back to eat regular eating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right.

It was like I kind of did the fast and then it felt so good that I continued kind of fasting in a way, even though I was eating, it was just not a lot, which we

Jenna: always talk about this, and I've experienced this so much. If you're going out to dinner with friends. Being very hungry is something you should be very cautious about.

It's the worst thing in the world because it makes, it starts to change your brain. Your brain goes into fight or flight mode where I need to get my hands on food. I need to eat, eat, eat. And then if you're not eating the right foods, you're feeling not satiated, so you're feeling like you have to eat more and more and more.

It's just making we, I've been there even where I didn't have nutrient-dense foods to satiate me, and I hate that feeling. Mm-hmm. I absolutely hate it.

Dr. Cara: I will say one thing about. The binge eating that I experienced is that you also have deep [00:14:00] regret the next day. Yeah. And while you're binging is, this is what happened to me is I would think in my head, I won't eat tomorrow.

So it was this constant cycle of I'm gonna allow myself to binge, I'm not going to eat tomorrow. 'cause I have deep regret and, and tomorrow's gonna be the day that I find the right resource to kick with the cycle. Yeah. And it was always that, and it's important to mention that I'm not talking about like numbers on a scale, but in this time period I did gain about 30 pounds.

Mm-hmm. Right when I stopped throwing up and I was only binging.

Jenna: I think you would agree though that probably the hardest thing of you, that the hardest thing that you had to deal with during this time period was the mental gymnastics, probably the amount of psychological stress, guilt, anxiety that you were dealing with.

Mm-hmm. Like I remember, and I knew everything you were going through through these moments, and we tried to talk about it and do the best that. I thought I was telling you the best advice that I could possibly give you at that time.

Dr. Cara: Oh, because yeah, you're trying to stop it. You physically can.

Jenna: Yeah. But, but at the same time, like it was something that you needed to figure out and come to a solution on, on your own, I think.

Was there anything I could have helped you with or [00:15:00] said? Oh, you

Dr. Cara: absolutely did. Yeah. And there's, there's things I actually was gonna get into in a little bit, but it's great to say now is what helped me get on the other side. Yeah. And one of those things is actually. You. Oh my gosh. When I was very anxious, depressed, binging gave me two p little pieces of paper with quotes on them.

Mm-hmm. And I put one on my nightstand and one in my bathroom where I do my makeup. Yeah. And they helped me tremendously. Do you know what the quotes were? I can't remember what the quotes were. I have one of them was like, something like you say. You're depressed, but it's your brain telling you otherwise when you're actually a happy person.

Like something like that. Mm-hmm. It was a John Green quote, and I can't exactly remember what it was. I'll have to look it up later, but I did write down some quotes that I wanted to share because they've become such from, those two have become such a big part of my life, and I still have the piece of paper in my nightstand drawer.

I've just switched my quotes around a little bit, but that was a few years ago that that. Really, really helped me.

Jenna: I do remember being in your [00:16:00] bathroom once, washing my face and looking at a quote I wrote you and thinking, wow, I a didn't remember that, but that's really nice to think about. And B, it's so nice to stare at something that really inspires you and changes your perspective for the better.

Dr. Cara: Mm-hmm. So perspective is so important and it's one thing that really, really helped me.

Jenna: Yeah. Do you feel like, when you say you came out on the other side, do you feel like that happened with a sudden light? Like a light going off or that it was a slow. Transition. It was a

Dr. Cara: slow transition for sure. Okay.

It, it definitely wasn't an overnight process. Right. I tried really hard with a food. I started with a food addictions counselor. She's a therapist that specializes in eating disorders. Right. And that was a really great place to start for me. But it, I was still bing in that time. Mm-hmm. I was bingeing less when I was seeing her because of the recommendations that she gave me.

Yeah. But it was definitely a slow process, like a one to two year process. Wow. Okay, so tell,

Jenna: tell us about that process a little bit. What helped you?

Dr. Cara: So with the Food Addictions counselor, one thing that, [00:17:00] um, I think is kind of important to say and crazy, is that she actually told me to buy unhealthy food and encouraged me to keep it in everything that I would potentially wanna binge on in the house so that it wasn't so restrictive.

And she said Restriction fuels obsession. So she told me to do that. It's kinda like that forbidden fruit thing

Jenna: we've talked about before. Yeah.

Dr. Cara: Yeah. And the whole idea was that you can access anything you want. And meanwhile I was like, lady, you're not hearing me. I binge on healthy foods A, because you're telling me to get put ice cream in my house.

I wouldn't even eat that because I don't see it as a food. And B, would you tell a heroin addict to go out and grab heroin and leave it in their house? Or an alcoholic to just grab a whole bunch of beer and keep it in your fridge. Right. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And one thing that I think is so important is these therapists, and even when I was in naturopathic medical school, I took a class on food addiction, they view it as restriction.

But I wanna flip the narrative here. 'cause as we're saying, perspective is so important. Let's look at as an abstinence. With alcohol, we recommend [00:18:00] abstinence, right? So that alcoholics don't go out and get alcohol. It's not restricting them from alcohol, it's abstinence because they can't handle having alcohol.

Jenna: And that, I think that's so important because people really view that as radical around food. Mm-hmm. When you're saying like, you could never have that, how long are you going to eat this way? But at the same time, alcoholics cannot do well with a little bit of alcohol,

Dr. Cara: and it's the same dopamine reward system we have in the brain.

Biologically it is the same.

Jenna: This is why I'm so grateful that I know it was such an awful time in your life, but you have gained so much insight and food addiction and this therapist, I'm so grateful her her career exists. 'cause it's such a new and unknown field, but it's so new that we don't even know what the right advice is.

Mm-hmm. We're putting together the pieces and dad's one of the first doctors that ever talked about this. Right. And you're gonna do. Even better. 'cause we're learning more and more about it with every coming and passing year. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cara: And the thing about this therapist was that she did help me a lot. I will say.

Yeah. I, I'm gonna get into that later, but she also was a hundred pounds overweight. Mm-hmm. And she [00:19:00] also was a food addict. Right, right. So she was giving me her experience and she wasn't out on the other side like I am today. Mm-hmm. Telling you about my experience, how I overcame it. Right. So she was.

Talking to me probably about ways that she was thinking about helping herself

Jenna: and I can appreciate that so much. Exactly. 'cause a lot of people get into these fields because they have come face to face with the problem and they wanna be a part of the solution. Mm-hmm And I'm so grateful for that, but also being open to that learning to make sure you're ge giving the right advice out there.

'cause I mean, this is so important for anyone that's dealing with an eating disorder. They deserve to come out on the other side and not be locked and chained by food and diet.

Dr. Cara: Absolutely. And when I took this in this, uh, food addictions class, I'm pretty sure it was actually called an intuitive eating class.

Mm-hmm. And I was, it was an elective that I was really excited to take because I was going through it. Yeah. I remember this. And they called it intuitive eating. Right. And they also said to buy cookies, put them on, put them on the plate, because then you're not gonna want them if you can have them. All the time was the method.

And in this class, what was [00:20:00] so crazy is that I felt so judged from not wanting to live by this 80 20 rule where you can have whatever you want 20% of the times intuitively. Mm-hmm. I'm like, oh, so a diabetic is going to be okay with intuitively eating cake. It just didn't make any sense to me, and I was like, why?

You're telling me that it's judging to. Like and restricting to have people eat healthy foods, but then you're judging me for wanting to eat healthy foods. Yeah. I remember you felt very judged for

Jenna: wanting to prioritize healthy foods. I mean, we, we feel those judgments all the time, but also I think what's so important to realize is there is a biological response and a, a bad response to eating Franken foods to foods that.

Perpetually making you want to eat more, it's science. And if you eat some of the potato chip, french fries, low calorie foods, you're gonna want more and more food 'cause you're not meeting your nutrient load.

Dr. Cara: And that's why the 80 20 rule doesn't make sense because if 20% of the [00:21:00] time you're eating unhealthy foods, your body is never going to adjust and your taste buds are never gonna change to crave that healthy food.

Exactly. You're even when you're eating the 80. 80% of healthy food, you're always gonna be thinking about when that 20% is coming and people who say they eat the 80 20 rule, it's really the 50 50 rule. Yeah. It's never actually 20%.

Jenna: Yeah. You know? Well, it kind of reminds me about sober curious that we talk about.

So more, so much because me and you being utilitarians and you know, having friends that drink and bar life in our twenties, this and that, we've dealt with. People that want us to drink more a lot. And we always, you know, say like, no more than one glass of wine a week, or at least this is my experience no more.

And I was feeling judged and feeling like I'm not fun. I'm not cool, because they all think I'm so obsessed with health that I won't. Relax and have a couple glass of wine and be fun and be drunk and be all these things that you should be in your twenties. And ever since I quit drinking cold Turkey, I just say like, I don't drink.

I'm sober and I'm so proud of it. And I stopped with the [00:22:00] mental gymnastics and I can just do what I want

Dr. Cara: and, and it feels Nobody questions you. No questions. So my best friend from college, we used to drink together a lot. Mm-hmm. Like we actually did go out together a good amount and she. She decided to completely stop drinking because she didn't like the anxiety that came with it.

Yeah, the next day for sure. And I watched people start thinking she was so cool for doing that, like removing her anxiety and she has the best personality ever, so everyone just thinks she's cool no matter what. But everyone thought she was cool and I was like, I'm gonna do, because nobody questions. Why she's not drinking.

Yeah. People just don't even go up to her and say, do you wanna drink? Right. Totally. It's so much easier to just cut it out. Completely liberating. It's so freeing. Mm-hmm. We love it. We love it.

Jenna: Super curious. No more we're just sober and we just wanna feel good. I love it. No, truly. And I always tell people like, I have a good thing going on.

I have a good thing going on up here in the body. Like I'm not really trying to mess it up with [00:23:00] drugs and yeah, I'm just gonna keep on hiking, living my best life and doing my thing. Who

Dr. Cara: wants that anxiety, man? Not me. Not me. Okay, sorry.

Jenna: Okay, back to it. So. Steps to get on the other side of food addiction that is so similar to other addictions that we experience.

So you really do believe in abstinence?

Dr. Cara: Oh, absolutely. Uh, anything that's gonna be addictive for you and that you can't control yourself with, get it out of the house, that is the number one thing you can do. Okay. What about things

Jenna: like peanut butter and nuts that you were saying were Yeah. You can't

Dr. Cara: control yourself with the get it outta the house.

During my healing process, I. Actually ended up putting things like nuts and peanut butter and almond butter in these small jars, and I was measuring out one to two tablespoons at a time and putting it in the jar. Because when you're in that binge mindset or in that where you don't really know exactly how much to eat, I kind of lost how many calorie, like I just didn't know what to eat and how much.

So I started measuring it out and putting it in jars. You didn't have your hunger hugs? No, I didn't have my hunger hugs. You were confused. So I wasn't. Measuring it out every time I ate it, I had it already in [00:24:00] preset jars. Like I would do this on a Sunday, let's say, and I would have it for a whole month in these actual jars that are really tiny and I could just finish the whole jar.

And you think this helped you heal? It helped me heal. Wow. It did. Okay. Good to know. Yeah. One thing that the I. The therapist I was seeing really helped me with was to find something to look forward to when you get home. So, for example, when I would go on these dates where I'm saying, I'm keep, stop, think I can't stop thinking about food, I feel lonely and I just wanna go home and binge before I would leave for the date, or if it was friends, whatever it may be, I would set up my bathroom.

To be a spa. So I would put my diffuser on with essential oils. I had flameless candles. I had my red light in there so that I could come home and turn it on to set the mood. And I would have, I had got a bath pillow, I had botanicals that I would put in tea bags in my bath to make it smell really good. I had bubbles.

I had, um, oh, and I always had my Kindle and. I will say Kindle something. I also think about when I'm out that I wanna go home and read my Kindle. So good. A good book. Nothing better. So I, if you can't picture that, it [00:25:00] was very relaxing for me. Yeah. So when I would leave that day. I would know I'm coming back for this bath and I was so looking forward to the bath that I stopped coming home and binging

Jenna: question for you.

Um, that's great advice. Did you eat before these dates, because I know a big problem was that you didn't eat before these dates. You were famished when you came home. Yes.

Dr. Cara: You did recommend that I force myself to eat before dates, right. Which I started to do as well. And I did eat a little bit lighter than like, typically if I didn't have a date because.

Again, I didn't want my stomach to hurt and I was nervous about that. Yeah. But I did start eating before dates. Okay. Yeah. I wonder if that helped at all. Yeah. So I wasn't going in as hungry. Yeah. Okay, great. And it doesn't have to necessarily be a bath. You can find something that you really like and you can set up, but I do think what's really important, I just think.

Setting it up when you're not in that binge mindset. Yeah. So it was already, I didn't have to do anything when I got home. Right. My pillow was already there. The red light was there, the Flameless candles were on. The diffuser was on. It smelled really good. It's like me, I know what [00:26:00] movie was on Deck for me to

Jenna: come home and watch.

Mm-hmm. Because movies really wrote me in with

Dr. Cara: anything that brings Leo. Yeah. Cuddles with your dog. That's a a great one. Yeah. It's just whatever can bring you peace. And I do find that baths help a lot because baths really do when you create that environment. You know, bring you into your parasympathetic nervous system.

Jenna: Yeah, that sounds great. And not activity that's not in your kitchen. Exactly. I wonder if that's key. And I, and

Dr. Cara: I also closed off the kitchen. So when I started doing this bath thing, in my mind, the kitchen was closed. Mm-hmm. So I couldn't go home and access the kitchen. Yeah. Okay. So it was closed. I wasn't allowed in the kitchen.

The next thing I wanted to get into is, might sound strange, but a salad for breakfast. Really, really helps me. I don't hate that at all for the record. So I found that when I get beans, flaxseeds, screens, anything that's really, really satiating and satisfying for my first meal of the day, I'm not thinking about food.

At all for the rest of the day. But if I wake up and I eat, you know, just a piece of fruit or something small [00:27:00] it, I still think about what I wanna eat next. And if I wake up, sometimes I'm really busy and I don't get the chance to eat until 1:00 PM I end up coming home and eating way too much. Yeah. And then I don't feel well.

Totally. So it's really about this precision nutrition. Crafting meals that truly satisfy you. Mm-hmm. And for me, that's a salad.

Jenna: Yeah. Well, I also think have start kicking the day off with something savory. I went through a period where I actually did this. I was eating one big salad at 10:00 AM and it was just what I was wanting at that time.

So like that's my little s. Been on intuitive eating is where like, I wanted this savory salad that made me feel satiated and good and who cares if it's 10:00 AM I loved it at 10:00 AM so I'm so with that. I eat my salads at 9:00 AM Do you? Yeah. Still? Yeah. Oh, you've been doing salad? Because sometimes I want sweet, sometimes I want savory.

And I think in, in my mind that's like, do I want like a berry oats? Do I want a salad? So I appreciate them both.

Dr. Cara: And sometimes I'll even have a blue, uh, side of blueberries with my salad. Yeah, I've been going to our local grocery store salad bar. [00:28:00] At 9:00 AM and making my salad and eating it right then and there.

And you know what? The salad and all the toppings are way fresher than they are at 4:00 PM It's so true. Eat your salads at nine.

Jenna: Um, also, I, you might get into this, but I do feel like we're big dessert people. Mm-hmm. Um, our dessert that we also eat with the fruit and the non-dairy milk and like a little bit of dates being chocolate chips.

Am I missing any good

Dr. Cara: ingredients? I've been loving the frozen blueberries, frozen cherries warmed up in the microwave with the date sweet and chocolate chips, and I now eat that for dinner instead of, you know, people would have that for breakfast, whatever it may be. Totally.

Jenna: Yeah. We hit the sweet, we hit the savory.

Mm-hmm. And I feel like our desserts are so non-traditional, but so delicious.

Dr. Cara: Oh yeah, definitely. I couldn't agree with that more. And a piece of fruit is dessert to me. Yeah, a hundred percent. Or maybe I have a piece of 85% dark chocolate with that. And that also is dessert. We love chocolate. Yeah.

Jenna: Okay.

Back to the, the tips that you were giving us. 'cause they were really fantastic.

Dr. Cara: Okay. You're ready for my next tip? Hit me. You might like this one, but you started it with those quotes. Did I? So [00:29:00] I wanna get back into it is you wrote me those quotes and. Once I had a little bit of a better head space, I started to put them everywhere and I started not to only do quotes like the affirmations, but also nutrition facts.

And nutrition facts are really important because it makes you wanna get into the why behind taking away this food addiction. Yeah, and one of our favorites quotes is, I wrote down here is by Marcus Aurelius is the happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts. And leaving quotes everywhere and different affirmations is how you rewire those thoughts.

Mm-hmm. How you improve the quality. Absolutely. And. That can also be in a few different other ways. So I started with the quotes, and then my, one of my really good friends from medical school who I opened up to about my, uh, food addiction problem, she said, always call me whenever you feel like you need to binge and let's talk about it.

But when you're in that binge mindset, you're [00:30:00] not in the mindset to call someone. But she did give me the advice. Going to bed every night thanking the universe for what I'm grateful for. And so I chose, and she, she was very specific with this. She said It cannot be. You're grateful for your mom or your dad or your sister or your dog, that sometimes it's going to be that.

But if it's that, it's, I'm grateful that my sister went for a bike ride with me today. Like something more tangible, right? That it's not just in your day to day, not general, in your day to day. So I even thought of things. I said it. Thank you. Because I went on a walk today and the pink flowers that I saw were so incredibly beautiful.

Or the person at the coffee shop where I was studying who I got, where I got my caramel male tea steamed with almond milk, smiled at me and asked me what my name was and who about my life. And I talked to them for a little bit. And this all goes into the perspective, right? If you're walking around on the street.

You smile a stranger, they're most likely going to smile back at you and you view the world as a happier place. [00:31:00] Yeah. Hundred percent. If you are walking on the street with a rest resting beo face mm-hmm. They're gonna have a resting beo face right back to you. And you're gonna view the world as a more negative place.

Jenna: No, this is, this isn't the exact quote, 'cause I don't have it on me, but I know I've read it so many times too. It's like you can view the world as if everything is magical or if nothing is magical. Mm-hmm. And even when I'm going in walks through a park or like the smell of trees mm-hmm. Or the. Daybreak or dusk, whatever it is.

Whatever colors the sky is going, like the smell of the trees, it's all magical to me. Mm-hmm. Like I do really feel like taking the time to appreciate these little things in life change your entire life.

Dr. Cara: They change your entire life. When I was feeling really sick, you know, I was extremely negative. I was like, why is this happening to me?

I didn't think it could be worse. I thought, this is terrible, you know, and then having these quotes around my house and saying three things I was grateful for every night before I went to bed that were really specific was the, the beginning of rewiring my thoughts. Mm-hmm. Even having the quotes around my house was really great.

But I did also [00:32:00] doom scroll on Pinterest and Instagram, just for quotes. Really? Yeah, I was looking, I was saving like 20,000, like I was literally saving 20 quotes a day. Yeah. And it really, really helped me rewire my thoughts. And again, as I was saying, this was a slow process, but the more that I did this, the little quotes that made me smile, the gratitude practice, it made me positive about everything.

Mm-hmm. Wow. That's really inspiring. And I realized that yes, I went through something that. That I rewired my experience of pain and food addiction to being helpful for my patients to being, it could have been way worse. I'm not dying. I still the whole life ahead of me. I just thought of it so differently, which again, was a part of the journey and extremely helpful.

Jenna: Mm-hmm. It's like going back to Marcus Aurelius saying the quality of. Your thoughts, you were changing this through doom scrolling on Pinterest. You were slowly changing the quality of your thoughts because you will become what you think.

Dr. Cara: Absolutely. I not what you rewired my brain. It's what you think.

And I had to rewire my brain because I was in that animal instinctive, [00:33:00] uh, pathway of binge eating, and that was coming from my brain. So it all had to be rewired. And also when

Jenna: you're

Dr. Cara: sick.

Jenna: It's so easy to be, I mean, the default would be to be negative. It's, it sucks that this is happening to you, that you had to go through this.

So it's, it's a tough obstacle to overcome. Mm-hmm. But like you, you could be up to the challenge. You could do it.

Dr. Cara: And naturopathic medical school is typically four years, and I wanted to graduate with my friends and my class, but I had to change my school to being five years because I had to. Have less of a workload when I was so sick.

'cause I was in so much pain and I had migraines and headaches every single day that I couldn't do my schoolwork. Mm-hmm. So I could focus on that or I could focus on the opportunity that my school gave me to make this five years and make it easier for me so I can graduate with this illness. Right. And so really rewiring my thoughts also helped.

But in addition to the quotes, which is my next tip is, and if you need, sorry, I just wanted to

Jenna: say if you need a therapist to help you do that. That's really what you should focus on.

Dr. Cara: Definitely. And with every single one of my patients, I talk about this. Mm-hmm. Because of how important [00:34:00] I think it is.

You're good girl. Thank you. So the next thing I think is so, so valuable is science. And this is similar to rewiring the thoughts because it's learning, learning the science. This is a quote from dad. Knowledge beats willpower. Set yourself up for success by learning everything you can about nutrition. If you need to put a reminder inside your fridge that says, eat broccoli sprouts, because they contain the highest amount of anti-cancer compounds.

Do it. If you need to write in the fridge where you keep your DHA bottle in big letters that it protects you against, it protects you against dementia, and that when you're low in Omegas, you can't detoxify properly. Do it. Read everything you can. Knowledge is so powerful, and I will say that's what brought me to the end.

Wow. So you think, wow, dad's work makes a difference. Yeah. Even for all the family. So I would say in this time period where I was doing really bad and eating with the food [00:35:00] addiction, having a lot of pain, my dad always told me I needed to lose. You know, I needed to be at my ideal weight and I wasn't, and that I wasn't doing a hundred percent.

And he always said the last, the money ISN in the last 5%. Yeah. And I rolled my eyes when he said that, and then I learned the science. I started seeing patients. I was, it was a little bit before then, but I was learning a lot of the science by researching a lot of dad's work and a lot of other doctor's work as well to do my mentorship and this residency that I'm doing.

And I wanted to implement everything that I was learning so badly that I realized. He was right. The money is in the last 5%. Don't let him hear you say that. I know. And I shed 20, 25 pounds without trying.

Jenna: Yeah. So I do wanna talk about the weight thing. 'cause that was something that was, we talked about a lot as a family.

Like, I'm like, dad, stop bringing up the scale. You know, Kara's going through this, this, and this. And he is like, I just need her to be a hundred percent. I need her to do this, to heal properly. What do you think looking back is the best way to handle that? Is [00:36:00] there anything dad could have said softer or do you think he just needed to be?

I think,

Dr. Cara: no, I do. I think the issue with dad is that it was so focused on the number on the scale and he didn't tell me to do any of this gratitude practice, any of learning the science, any of the bath stuff, like I really do think you have to rewire your thoughts and learn the science in order first before you focus on that number on your scale.

Like as I said, the 25 pounds that I lost. I didn't weigh myself in that time period at all. I didn't even know what happened. Yeah, I didn't know what happened until my friends started started telling me that my cheeks snatched

Jenna: no, which, but actually I didn't even realize. No, which, I mean, I think dad learns too throughout everything that happens to us as a family, because as a young physician, you could hear him.

He is like, stop eating that. Eat that. Lose your diabetes. Get off the medication. Like eat your gbombs. And now he's like, you have to be grateful for the world around you. You have to breathe and focus on. He's just and focused on internally generated self-esteem. He's realizing how powerful the mind is and how much it affects this stuff.

And he always kind of knew. [00:37:00] But I think we are all learning in this really new field. Mm-hmm. And we're all learning the best ways to move forward and help each other.

Dr. Cara: And to be fair, you do have to know the numbers on the scales with your patients because. If they're not losing, if they're extremely overweight and they're not losing two pounds a week, you know, they're, they're not listening to you and they're not doing it properly.

Or there's something, there's something that needs to be addressed and needs to be fixed. Totally. But I think for a patient that is uncomfortable seeing the number on the scale, you can have them. I have patients turn around when I weigh them mm-hmm. And I'll figure out the loophole, loopholes. And while they're, why they're not losing weight Yeah.

For them. Yeah. Rather than being like. You are 200 pounds and you need to be 1 95 like at this point.

Jenna: Mm-hmm. Right. Totally. Because they could also, I've, we've seen it happen where it's on the other side too, where they become a little neurotic focusing like, I, I, I gained half a pound, and you're like, it could just be water.

Let's see how it goes next week. Totally. It's this balance and this tricky. The mind and body are just so related. Mm-hmm. And so they go hand in hand and piggyback off each other that it's almost, you have to address both simultaneously to really make lasting impact.

Dr. Cara: And we are [00:38:00] talking about food addiction of course, but all of this applies to the other end too.

With anorexics. I think the same thing. If you learn the science, if you grad, if you have the gratitude practice and you know all this information, it's going to go that way as well. Mm-hmm. And it's both ends. Yeah.

Jenna: And I always like to say it's not demonizing certain foods. It's, it's lifting up the foods that are really good for us.

Like, I, it's so true that education is power because we'll do a podcast episode on Phish or Dad will talk about omega threes. I'll listen to him on some zoom, zoom call. I'll get up and I'll be like, oh shoot, I forgot D-H-A-E-P-A yesterday. I'll take it. Dad, you and dad start popping off on Lignins. I'm like, I haven't been doing two tablespoons of flax seeds.

I've been doing one. You know, it, it. Hearing it over and over and over really motivates you to live this lifestyle and to do everything you can with the power of nutrition.

Dr. Cara: And there's so many resources out there. Of course, there's a lot of resources that are gonna tell you the wrong information as well.

But like this podcast, it's why I wanna do this with you so bad, is because people can listen to this in the car and say, oh, that was a cool [00:39:00] nutrition fact. I'm gonna write it down and put it on my fridge. I'm gonna put it in my bathroom mirror when I was studying for boards. I also put note cards of all my studying materials.

It's the exact same thing. We're studying how to eat and how to feel good. And

Jenna: I'm so

Dr. Cara: grateful

Jenna: for, I mean, so few people have this, but I'm so grateful for our relationship. We've been best friends our entire lives, and we're very close to our other siblings, but we're two years of 10 months apart. We have had all the same friends.

We're

Dr. Cara: like twins.

Jenna: Yeah, we're like and are. We've been able to vent to each other mm-hmm. About how we eat, about dealing with social interactions. And it breaks, I think it breaks our heart that not everyone has that. Mm-hmm. So if, if we can be that

Dr. Cara: for other people, we want to be Abso Absolutely. We wanna be.

They're bestie in their ear. You know, we want them to be our triplet. Yeah. Talking about nutrition and

Jenna: I, and telling people it's okay to be themselves and to eat healthy, or to not drink or do these things that society is telling us is weird.

Dr. Cara: Totally. For so many years I did things that I didn't wanna do, like going out for drinks, eating french fries, and I would [00:40:00] feel so bad about myself the next day, and now that I do none of that, I couldn't be more confident in who I am, and I love the decisions that I'm making.

Okay. I have to dig into that. More confident. How did you become more confident? I'm making choices that aligned with who I am and what I want.

Jenna: You feel more seen for who Exactly. Who you're,

Dr. Cara: yeah. I feel like I am doing what I want to do as a person. I've always wanted to be as healthy as I can be, but I thought I couldn't because my friends didn't do that, or it wasn't socially normal.

Yeah. And so that came with a lot of anxiety. Yeah.

Jenna: You're a very fun and silly person. Naturally. Like ever since you were a kid, you would definitely like being in a room making weird, loud noises, dancing, all this stuff, and I feel like. Society told you that you couldn't do that unless you were drunk or.

Dr. Cara: No, I completely agree. I felt that if it, if I wasn't, if I didn't have drinks, I wasn't fun enough or something like that. And I do feel like for many years my sparkle was dull. I don't think a lot of friends that I met later in life would say, I am very silly. I like to dance. I'm outgoing. [00:41:00] I became more quiet and reserved in certain situations because I was so in my head.

Because I was like, oh, I should do a little but not too much. And I didn't know if I should say something or not say something. I was always second guessing myself really. And. It's crazy that changing my food choices and being more confident in that is more confident in everything in my life. Yeah. And interacting with friends in going anywhere in my relationship.

Yeah.

Jenna: No, because in the, at the end of the day, people just wanna be who they are and get back to that person. Unadulterated by any outside influence, negative or positive. Like if you could get back to being that. Childhood sparkle. And I think what's so powerful about diet nutrition is food lets you be the best person possible because you're not being bogged down by sickness.

It brings out your inner child. It really does. So like the mental and physical synergy that people can experience that we've experienced is so powerful and I think people just need, need [00:42:00] to know it's okay to be who they authentically are and trying to be someone else. Being who society wants you to be isn't helping you in the end.

Dr. Cara: Absolutely. And that's why I'm so passionate about educating people, because I'm not saying I'm, I'm not here to judge you and I'm not going to judge you. Yeah. I'm confident in the decisions I'm making and you, I want you to be confident in the decisions that you are making. Yeah. But that's why I think education is so powerful because it gives people the power to make their own choices.

Jenna: Yeah. And I think we are around people. Way less than mom and dad. We have people in our lives who live very different lifestyles than us, and it's okay. We don't judge them. We still have great relationships with them, and sometimes we change people's lifestyle and sometimes they're very similar to our own and sometimes they're not.

And we're still okay sitting in that pocket because we're so okay with who we are.

Dr. Cara: Absolutely. And I've lost friends over them not being okay with me changing. Mm-hmm. But that's fine because I have a lot of friends who don't care one bit and they. Eat and drink very differently than I do, and we don't care at all.

We don't judge each other. We're still, we still bond over other things. We go to workout classes together, we go on [00:43:00] trips together and it's never been an issue.

Jenna: Yeah. And I love that when you fall into the pattern of like who you wanna be and going to workout classes and going on hiking trips, doing those things, you start to meet other people that do it and you become even happier and happier.

Mm-hmm. So it really is a snowball effect, and I feel like it's an effect that's led you further and further away from that person. Was suffering from food addiction. A hundred percent. I do really think you've grown so much.

Dr. Cara: A hundred percent. I'm a completely different person, quite frankly, and I've, along the journey, I've met a lot of people who are plant-based and who don't do wanna eat this way, even through Instagram, which sounds crazy, but I was struggling for friends.

Mm-hmm. I. You know that, that I was struggling for friends when I was also in this time period. And being more confident in my decisions has brought me friends.

Jenna: Yeah.

Dr. Cara: That also think it's cool what we're doing.

Jenna: I always liked you for the record, regardless of what you were going through. But I do love seeing you smile more and I think that's really magical.

Thank you. So I'm happy you're in a better place, but I just want, I've

Dr. Cara: always liked you. You have always liked me. And I will say that anything I've gone through, I could have never done without you. Wow.

Jenna: Thanks. Yeah.

Dr. Cara: Should [00:44:00] we get married?

Jenna: We already are getting married in April. Not to me. Okay. You'll always be married to me.

Yeah. Anyways, well thank you so much and opening up, that was immensely vulnerable and I just applaud you so much for how far you've come and I swear this education and knowledge that you've gained through this experience is gonna help. I can't even tell you how many people.

Dr. Cara: And that's, that's really the goal.

I just hope that people can live their best life.

Jenna: Please eat to live, eat to live people. Precision nutrition. She loves it. Bye. Oh, you forgot your own high five. I know. I honestly, I high five dad. And now I kinda wanna body bump you. All right.

Dr. Cara: Hip.